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View Full Version : Scuffle for organs sparks donor debate in Singapore


jdelpiero
28-02-2007, 03:17 PM
SINGAPORE, Feb 28 (Reuters) - As members of Sim Tee Hua's family sat at his bedside to pray for his recovery, they were horrified to learn that the hospital staff were about to turn off his life-support machine and use his organs for transplants.

The scenes that followed have shocked and upset not just Sim's family but many other Singaporeans, sparking a debate over the country's organ donor policy, which assumes that all citizens are willing donors, unless they have registered with the government that they wish to opt out.

Doctors at Singapore General Hospital had declared Sim brain-dead and said they could not delay switching off life support any longer because of the risk of damage to Sim's organs.

Sim's family had no objection to his organs being used for transplants but wanted doctors to wait one more day before turning off the life support machine.

But as Sim's 68-year-old mother and about 20 other relatives knelt weeping before the doctors, begging them to wait, nine police officers entered the ward and restrained the distraught family while Sim's body was quickly whisked away.

"The hospital staff were running as they wheeled him out of the back door of the room. They were behaving like robbers," said Sim Chew Hiah, one of Sim's elder sisters.

The Sim family's experience has prompted a wave of letters to the local media, with some people saying they would opt out in protest, and added fire to a debate about organ trading. Lee Wei Ling -- a prominent doctor who is the daughter of Lee Kuan Yew, the first prime minister of modern Singapore -- last month urged the government to legalise organ trading, or the buying or selling of human organs for cash.

"Organ trading is frowned upon and usually not allowed in countries where political correctness reigns," said Lee in a letter to the Straits Times.

"If monetary incentive makes a potential living donor more willing to save another life, what is wrong in allowing that ?"

Her views have some support from the public.

"If I can sell my organs, give my children a better life, and save someone else's life too, why not? Not everyone drives a Mercedes," said Khalid, 32, who gave only his first name.

Currently, anyone caught buying or selling human organs in Singapore may be jailed up to a year or fined up to US$6,500.

POOR DONORS

Those who oppose the trading of human organs say it promotes greater social injustice.

"To trade it and sell it for a 100 pounds, 200 pounds, or to the highest bidder, that is to prostitute your organ," said Dr Choi Kin, president of the Hong Kong Medical Association.

Such donors are likely to be the poor and uneducated people from countries such as Brazil and India, who can sell a kidney for as little as $1,000, the World Health Organisation said.

And they are usually exploited by organ traffickers, who can charge wealthy clients up to $100,000 to $200,000 for a new organ, according to the WHO.

The chronic shortage of organs available for transplant is a global problem. In the U.S. alone, more than 6,200 patients die each year while waiting for an organ, according to the United Network for Organ Sharing, a U.S.-based non-profit medical group.

The shortage has forced doctors and governments to look for alternatives, such as the use of pigs' kidneys, hearts and lungs, or the purchase of human organs.

Many patients have also travelled abroad for transplants, notably to China, which has been accused by rights groups of harvesting organs from executed prisoners.

Since 1995, more than 270 Singaporeans have gone abroad, mostly to China, for organ transplants, the Health Ministry said.

DEFINITION OF DEATH

To ease the organ shortage, Singapore amended its Human Organ Transplant Act in 2004 to expand the pool of organ donors and the type of organs that could be donated.

Hospitals can remove the kidneys, liver, heart and corneas of all non-Muslim Singapore citizens or permanent residents when they die, unless they have objected.

Muslims can choose to donate their organs, as in Iran and Malaysia, although many believe that the dead should be buried with all their organs intact.

Doctors say a system which assumes all citizens are organ donors is necessary because even though many people are in favour of donating their organs, few actually come forward.

While many European countries, including Belgium, Denmark, Norway, Switzerland, and Spain, have laws similar to Singapore's Transplant Act, it can still be a sensitive issue.

When Brazil passed a similar law in 1998, it triggered a public outcry. The Federal Attorney later conceded that families could prevent the removal of organs for transplant.

Critics say laws which assume all citizens are organ donors are inadequate because the definition of death is debatable. Others are concerned that life-support may be turned off prematurely or that people may be unaware of the opt-out option.

"It should be up to the citizens to decide. These are their bodies, their organs, and therefore their decisions," said Dr Choi Kin. "If an accident should occur, it would be too late for them to opt out, even if they do not agree to donate."

In Singapore, some doctors had urged amending the Transplant Act, giving families the right to block such donations.

After the outcry over the Sim family's forced donation, the hospital and health ministry said in a statement that they would "continue to find practical solutions to minimise the emotional distress of families and staff in such situations."

Sim's kidneys went to patients who had waited six to eight years for donor organs, the ministry said.

His parents were offered five years of subsidised hospital fees -- and his family received a thank-you letter from the ministry for their "generous organ donation."

Koo
28-02-2007, 03:29 PM
I not sure whelter many people know this. Singapore harvest organs from hanged convicts after they are "dead". I say this is not respect to a human let alone the family. Convicts who died in prison due to disease and age could be your next organ "donor" for all I know. :evil: Remember dun let "goverment" harvest your love one's organ unless stated in his/her will. They make handsome profits from this market. :evil: I am strongly against the organ act as it has too many loopholes and "people may expolit it". I feel sorry for those whose love ones have been "expolit" by the organ market here.

gogetter
28-02-2007, 04:48 PM
What's the procedure for opting out?

Koo
28-02-2007, 05:27 PM
What's the procedure for opting out?

I remember 1st you have to seen by 2 doctors (1 better be your family doctor, the other can be any doctor), pay for the forms, wait and wait for the forms to be processed, is there more to add on? ........... organ act (cost you a hole in the pocket)

I guessing the "goverment" hospital may not accept wills so better have your lawyer on the hotdial to pervent them from doing a harvest of organs from your love one.:evil:

cyc
28-02-2007, 05:39 PM
What's the procedure for opting out?

why opt out? die liao let pple use mah... ur legacy lives on :D

Koo
28-02-2007, 05:41 PM
why opt out? die liao let pple use mah... ur legacy lives on :D

Your legacy better dun live on a 84 year old man goes by the surname LXX (aka: thousand year old tree spirit) who make the country suffer or any of his corines. You would not R.I.P properly.[-X

Miracle
28-02-2007, 07:20 PM
Everyone's organ that are still usuable are automatically "donated". One of the reason is that SG is too small and there are alot of people who need healthy organs.

Two ways to prevent your organs from being taken is to opt out thru a letter that was sent to everyone asking whether you wanna opt out, the other method is to become a Muslim. :)

cyc
01-03-2007, 09:54 AM
the other method is to become a Muslim. :)

I heard that if u're a Muslim, u'll be at the end of the waiting list if u're waiting for an organ... I think that fair since we shld give piority to those who are willing to donate theirs after death...

Anomaly
01-03-2007, 10:52 AM
I dun understand hold on to your organs when the person already died.

kazuki
01-03-2007, 11:26 AM
Your legacy better dun live on a 84 year old man goes by the surname LXX (aka: thousand year old tree spirit) who make the country suffer or any of his corines. You would not R.I.P properly.[-X

Am i thinking who u are thinking???:thinking:
If so, DIE DIE also wont give lor!:shooting: I will rather throw into detol.:laugh:

Everyone's organ that are still usuable are automatically "donated". One of the reason is that SG is too small and there are alot of people who need healthy organs.


U mean by default if singaporeans never write a will, their organs will be automatically donated?!

Miracle
01-03-2007, 11:44 AM
U mean by default if singaporeans never write a will, their organs will be automatically donated?!

Yupz, unless you're Muslim. :)

kazuki
01-03-2007, 11:50 AM
Yupz, unless you're Muslim. :)

knn! Even though i have no intentions on holding back my organs, but i also dun like the idea of them being so "automatic" lor!:angry:

Miracle
01-03-2007, 11:53 AM
knn! Even though i have no intentions on holding back my organs, but i also dun like the idea of them being so "automatic" lor!:angry:

Therefore before you die, you must opt out of this scheme. :D

kazuki
01-03-2007, 12:01 PM
Therefore before you die, you must opt out of this scheme. :D

pengz...

Is it must go gov website do their e-forms, wait for black and white, then they will forward to upstairs for approval then i know?:laugh:

Koo
01-03-2007, 12:10 PM
pengz...

Is it must go gov website do their e-forms, wait for black and white, then they will forward to upstairs for approval then i know?:laugh:

Eheheh... no e-form if I not wrong the only way to get the opt out forms for this $#@^ organ act is through a doctor. Waste time and $$$.:angry:

Miracle
01-03-2007, 12:23 PM
Eheheh... no e-form if I not wrong the only way to get the opt out forms for this $#@^ organ act is through a doctor. Waste time and $$$:angry:

But there was a letter sent to Singaporeans aged 21 (at my time) to state whether you wanna opt out or not. I don't know the procedure but if you don't wanna opt out, you don't have to do anything, so taking the easy way out, everyone is automatically enrolled. :laugh:

Leslie
01-03-2007, 10:20 PM
I don't see what the fuss is about for the most part. A policy decision has been made to make it the default position that one's organs can be used after death unless one opts out beforehand. This is obviously with the objective of saving lives by ensuring that the organs are harvested with as little post-death red tape as possible (since speed is of the essence).

Furthermore, it doesn't require an arm and a leg to opt out. If say someone can't be bothered to follow the opt-out procedure, that would suggest that opting-out isn't that big a deal to such a person, and so much the better for the possible recipients of his organs.

Of course, that all being said, medical staff should exercise as much sensitivity as possible in the actual execution of the post-death procedures, bearing in mind the balance between getting the organs out ASAP, and family members' feelings.

Miracle
01-03-2007, 10:32 PM
Ya lar, I don't see any fuss in donating organs. You die already, you want someone else to die with you meh? It will be good to be able to donate your organs without any pain or side-effects after that. :laugh:

kazuki
01-03-2007, 10:58 PM
Prob is how many here knew abt the automatic donation before u read in this thread?

Leslie
01-03-2007, 11:03 PM
err - well, I did. It was quite well-publicised in the papers and other media at the time too - and if Miracle's experience is anything to go by, they might have sent a letter out too. Can't ask for much more than that ...

It's just one of those administrative things lah. Like making CPF nomination liddat.

kazuki
01-03-2007, 11:45 PM
err - well, I did. It was quite well-publicised in the papers and other media at the time too - and if Miracle's experience is anything to go by, they might have sent a letter out too. Can't ask for much more than that ...

It's just one of those administrative things lah. Like making CPF nomination liddat.

Then do u have any idea how many less educated ppl have no idea whats all these abt?

Its not fair that coz its advertised so they take it for granted all should know.
Rather, they should get a proper signature from each and everyone's consent, and not just if u dun reply mean yes.

Miracle
02-03-2007, 12:05 AM
Prob is how many here knew abt the automatic donation before u read in this thread?

I knew it when I was in secondary school. :laugh:

Maybe the older generations didn't know but I believe the younger ones should know.

Govt has too many regulations that make people confuse. Eg. the person you nominate for CPF becomes invalid when you get married and need to renominate again etc.

Leslie
02-03-2007, 12:14 AM
Rather, they should get a proper signature from each and everyone's consent, and not just if u dun reply mean yes.
In this case there's a conflict between the urgent need for organ extraction, and people's inertia and ambivalence towards the issue. So all things considered, a command decision has been made to make the default position "yes", because doing it the other way will increase admin cost, and also probably materially affect the number of people who will end up donating. I personally think the decision to do it this way, is corect.

kazuki
02-03-2007, 12:47 AM
I knew it when I was in secondary school. :laugh:

Maybe the older generations didn't know but I believe the younger ones should know.

Govt has too many regulations that make people confuse. Eg. the person you nominate for CPF becomes invalid when you get married and need to renominate again etc.

dude, dun be surprised that when i was in poly there was this pax i knew whom dunno who is bill gates...:|
There are definitely things that one pax knows and the other dunno.

This doesnt affect any of us this immediate, which is why we seem alright abt it.

Actually its pretty "similar" to the telco services we have. After the 2yrs plan u signed has ran up, the free services will no longer be free and u arent notified. U will be billed for them. If u are someone who just pay bills without checking, thats it. They take it for granted that u know and u are ready to pay. Yet, we see lotsa ppl complaining abt this previously in forums and newspapers. Why? Coz this affect them on the spot.

The whole point isnt that i am holding back my parts or what. My buddies know me.
The problem is i dun like the idea of such automatic system. Issit that if i didnt reply or what, they will overwrite my spouse/family's to have a funeral wake for me and dig out them immediately, not even waiting for that 7days prayer ritual?:beatup:

jdelpiero
02-03-2007, 07:51 AM
if u have been dead for 7 days..
that means the organs have been dead for 7 days as well..

you can't even boil soup with those.

kazuki
02-03-2007, 08:56 AM
K, using the 7days might sound too long.

We use back the article in the 1st post.

Do the doctors and even the police, have to rush into whisking away the body that quickly???

Miracle
02-03-2007, 11:25 AM
I know when someone dies outside the hospital especially, the body will be taken for autopsy to see if there is any foul play involve. Even if you said the deceased had a heart attack and pass on, they will still cut open the body to check. :)

cyc
02-03-2007, 01:58 PM
kazuki has a point on the auto inclusion thingy, that's why there was a big debate when the policy was implemented... but u know lah, it's difficult to be government... the reason why they don't send letters asking for signatures is that nobody bother to sign when they started the organ donation campaign... so, they make set the policy such that if u care so much abt ur body after death, u shld go thru' the trouble of opting out... good policy or bad policy, I dunno, all I know is that the objective is achieved ie. to have more organs for transplant... all the govt wanted is to do their best for those who are still living, I think that fair considering they are the ones who are being taxed :laugh: no offense, juz to add a bit of spark to this thread :)

Koo
02-03-2007, 02:58 PM
But there was a letter sent to Singaporeans aged 21 (at my time) to state whether you wanna opt out or not. I don't know the procedure but if you don't wanna opt out, you don't have to do anything, so taking the easy way out, everyone is automatically enrolled. :laugh:

I ask around some of my friends and others around my age, some of them got the letter to opt out this $#@% organ act while other like me did not/have yet to receive our letter for opt out.........:(

I do not like the way the "organ market/act" here works, as

1)The "automatic/systematic" appoarch to make you a organ donor.

2) Some people of other reilgions "do" need to be complete when they "report up there" not only muslim friends.

3) The organ market there is not open as in there can no organs flown in from a oversea donor from other countries as I know.

4) Hospital can only store organ for an amount of time by they .......making sure people who is in dire need and lack money to do so wait into their grave. The cost of organ transplant + organ storage + organ "cost" +others ........ only the rich can afford it and be alive by "buying it".

5) Do your donor appericate your contribution even after death for the fact of extending his life / improving it ....... I do not see it as often for a country so self centre and money driven.

cyc
02-03-2007, 08:06 PM
3) The organ market there is not open as in there can no organs flown in from a oversea donor from other countries as I know.
all countries don't have enuff orgain, how to fly in one for ya?

5) Do your donor appericate your contribution even after death for the fact of extending his life / improving it ....... I do not see it as often for a country so self centre and money driven.
ya lah, like dat suay suay lor... but I rather take the risk and hope that a good soul benefited... but u're also rite lah, some S'porean damn one kind, MRT u give up seat for pple, some don't even bother to say thanx