Income gap tears at Singapore social fabric - what is your perception?

[jdelpiero]

SINGAPORE, Dec 18 (Reuters) - When Wee Shu Min, the teenage daughter of a Singapore member of parliament stumbled across the blog of a Singaporean who wrote that he was worried about losing his job, she thought she'd give him a piece of her mind.

She called him "one of many wretched, undermotivated, overassuming leeches in our country" on her own blog and signed off with "please, get out of my elite uncaring face".

Wee was flamed by hundreds of fellow bloggers, but when her father Wee Siew Kim -- an MP in Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong's constituency -- told a Singapore newspaper that "her basic point is reasonable", the row moved well beyond the blogosphere.

The episode highlighted a deep rift in Singapore society and was an embarrassment for the ruling People's Action Party (PAP) and prime minister Lee, who has made the reduction of the income gap one of the priorities of his new government.

"Coming from an MP in the prime minister's constituency, these comments really were political dynamite," political commentator Seah Chiang Nee told Reuters.

"If the political arrogance and elitism get any worse, the PAP will lose more electoral ground," he added.

Singapore is Asia's second-richest country after Japan with a gross domestic product per capita of about $27,000, ranking between EU member Italy and Spain. But in terms of income disparity, Singapore is in altogether different company.

Singapore's Gini index -- which measures inequality of income distribution among households -- of 42.5 puts it between Burundi and Kenya, the UN Human Development Report 2006 shows.

"Yes, the gini coefficient is very high. Through housing, health care and education, we have tried to narrow the income gap, but not through wages," National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan told Reuters in an interview last month.

"WELFARE AS A DIRTY WORD"

Singapore pays no employment benefits, no pensions and has no legal minimum wage, but education is cheap and excellent, health care is subsidised and the government gives subsidies to first-time buyers of government-built flats.

Last month, Singapore's first parliament session since the May 6 poll was dominated by the inequality theme.

PM Lee ruled out the introduction of old-age pensions, a minimum wage or European-style welfare.

"We have treated welfare as a dirty word. The opposition, I think the Workers' Party, has called for a 'permanent unconditional needs-based welfare system'. I think that is an even dirtier five words," he said in a speech on Nov. 13.

But he acknowledged that since the Asian financial crisis in 1997, the income gap had widened, and said that his government plans to "tilt the balance in favour of the lower-income groups".

While Lee's ruling PAP is in no danger of losing its stranglehold on parliament -- where it has 82 out of 84 elected seats -- the growing income disparity has hurt its credibility.

In the May 6 poll, the Workers' Party scored its best result in years, with chairwoman Sylvia Lim winning 44 percent of the votes in a multi-seat ward. Lee lost 34 percent in his ward to a group of unknown candidates in their early thirties.

"They (the PAP) are concerned about the fallout if they don't do anything about the income gap," Lim, who entered parliament as a non-voting MP under a best-loser provision, told Reuters.

In parliament, Lee said he plans to improve healthcare and boost housing subsidies for low-income families. He added that he wants more "workfare" schemes, under which the state tops up low-income workers' pay.

On May 1 -- five days before the election -- the government paid out S$150 million to about 330,000 low-income workers, and Lee promised a similar package for next year. Details would be released in the 2007 budget on February 15.

"MARIE ANTOINETTES"

Critics say that much of the outrage about the teenage blogger's comments is due to a perception that Singapore is ruled by a privileged elite that's out of touch with the people.

The road to a top job in the Singapore government or civil service leads through elite junior colleges and prestigious government scholarships for university studies abroad.

While access to these schools and scholarships is open to all and based on academic grades, critics say the children of the elite are well represented. Wee Shu Min attends a top school, Raffles Junior College, as did her father, an MP and a top executive at state-owned arms maker ST Engineering.

In a report about "elite envy", the Straits Times daily quoted official data showing that in the last five years, one in three students on government scholarships came from families with incomes of more than $$10,000 ($6,500) a month, while such families make up just 13 per cent of all Singapore households.

Students from households on incomes of less than $2,000 made up only 7 per cent of scholarship winners, the paper added.

Colin Goh, founder of satirical website TalkingCock.com, said that while the first generation of post-independence PAP leaders was seen as close to the people, this is no longer the case.

"The source for much invective in the Wee Shu Min case is that there is a real sense the PAP is composed of people in ivory towers; that they are a bunch of Marie Antoinettes," he said.

[cyc]

hmm... oh well, that's the sad sad real world we're in :o
in army, those pple are called the "white horse"... they never get to suffer...
in the working life, they've roadmaps drawn for 'em, from scholarship to eventually being the vice-president... these pple usually serve in the public sector and most of 'em would receive promotion every 2 yrs (some once a yr) unless u're damn jia-lat... job security is a forgotten term...
once, I'd asked a CEO of a company (public sector) "I know this is a norm, but why is it that u have a reserved parking lot? I thot S'pore is abt equality", his reply "some pple are more 'equal' than others" (with a wink)... I guess he's trying to say "welcome to the real world, dude :P"...
I'm quite certain that these social prob ain't local... try asking opinions from pple in corrupted countries, I'm sure it's worse :o

[kazuki]

once, I'd asked a CEO of a company (public sector) "I know this is a norm, but why is it that u have a reserved parking lot? I thot S'pore is abt equality", his reply "some pple are more 'equal' than others" (with a wink)... I guess he's trying to say "welcome to the real world, dude :P"...
I'm quite certain that these social prob ain't local... try asking opinions from pple in corrupted countries, I'm sure it's worse :o

Whahahahaaha i like that.=))
Well, for sg males. we seen that in army liao mah. Why CO has personnal parking lots too? Why certain rankings and positions have personal cars and drivers wan?

Man, we all know this is not an equal and democratic world.


What real life do those ppl when they assume mee siam have cockles...L-)

[bryando88]

Some more thoughts for the day:

-Does the minister of transport go to work by Bus or Train, considering that Spore declare having a 'World Class transport system.....or any minister for that matter?

-Does any member of parliment ever fear losing his job? Or even paycut or increment freeze or bonus freeze for that matter, ever?

.....Not to say the Pineapple And Papaya has not done anything good for the country. But considering the posistion and strength, I personally believe more could and should be done for the people....rather than keep using the same old trick of taking 1 dollar from you and giving you back a 50cents Hongbao.....

[cyc]

-Does the minister of transport go to work by Bus or Train, considering that Spore declare having a 'World Class transport system.....or any minister for that matter?
actually, to say a word of fairness, not only in S'pore lah... it's everywhere, decision markers juz ask those pple below 'em (and the chain effect)... they can hardly be blamed for not taking the MRT, rite? ;)

-Does any member of parliment ever fear losing his job? Or even paycut or increment freeze or bonus freeze for that matter, ever?
of coz they don't lah, they're high calibre pple mah... a lot of listed companies are waiting to pounce on 'em (to be in their management board) once they retire from politics :drum:

the good thing abt S'pore is that it tries to provide u the equipment to do well in life... so, there's no need to envy those elites... if u like their lifestyle, work for it... if u can't, make ur kids become one (which is another social prob) by making 'em study hard :o


She called him "one of many wretched, undermotivated, overassuming leeches in our country" on her own blog and signed off with "please, get out of my elite uncaring face".
there's diff between rich/powerful and snobbish... being rich/powerful is not a crime... being snobbish is also not a crime but it juz narrow ur social circle to those who are of the same class... unfortunately, some elitist care less :o

[kazuki]

.....Not to say the Pineapple And Papaya has not done anything good for the country. But considering the posistion and strength, I personally believe more could and should be done for the people....rather than keep using the same old trick of taking 1 dollar from you and giving you back a 50cents Hongbao.....

whahaahaaa
nod nod. We all know it all along, but do we have a choice? Democratic? Open? Freedom? Pay it with a price if u want...

[Koo]

whahaahaaa
nod nod. We all know it all along, but do we have a choice? Democratic? Open? Freedom? Pay it with a price if u want...

Hummm.... Democratic? Open? Freedom? Dun see it but it maybe at the end of the tunnel when the rotten old tree falls killing the young tree and 78 white monkeys or more along with it. (a term in chinese) "The taksin option" is not very plateable to SG as dun to the NS, white horses, wrong mindset, policitical officers and training+mindwash. This option is the "best way" out so as the familee dun get to run away with the people's $$$ and create a marcos situation.

[kazuki]

Income difference will always be there in a modern country, as long as the civilization exists.
We all know it. The riches only get richer, the poors get poorer. This is the "rule" of the game.

But sometimes ppl tend to not see the hardships of those in the middle or slightly above poor. They are the sandwiched ppl. They are neither up or down. They are "viewed" as not poor, so not given the max helps "designed" for the poor ppl. But they also arent that rich enough to survive the rough seas out there...

(OT: Anyone read abt the new troubles temasek is in now in Indonesia...L-) )

[kazuki]

Singapore is Asia's second-richest country after Japan with a gross domestic product per capita of about $27,000, ranking between EU member Italy and Spain. But in terms of income disparity, Singapore is in altogether different company.

Singapore's Gini index -- which measures inequality of income distribution among households -- of 42.5 puts it between Burundi and Kenya, the UN Human Development Report 2006 shows.


Out of curiousity on how Gini index works, i did a goggle in wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gini_index

In the page, they use the ratings from 0-1.
We have GDP close to the European countries and we are ranked second richest country after Japan in Asia. Yet we have Gini index in the 40+ area whereas the europeans have the area in the 30+. And if my map reading isnt too lousy, from the chart i see that Japan has it in the 20+...

What are these figures telling us?!

In a report about "elite envy", the Straits Times daily quoted official data showing that in the last five years, one in three students on government scholarships came from families with incomes of more than $$10,000 ($6,500) a month, while such families make up just 13 per cent of all Singapore households.

Students from households on incomes of less than $2,000 made up only 7 per cent of scholarship winners, the paper added.

Colin Goh, founder of satirical website TalkingCock.com, said that while the first generation of post-independence PAP leaders was seen as close to the people, this is no longer the case.

"The source for much invective in the Wee Shu Min case is that there is a real sense the PAP is composed of people in ivory towers; that they are a bunch of Marie Antoinettes," he said.

Weird figures again...
Families earning more than 10k a mth stand abt 13% in Singapore. But 1/3(33.33%) of them got the gov scholarships.
Then the grp of students whose family make less than $2k, thats abt 7% on the scholarships...

I would be interested to know how big is the 2nd grp...

[cyc]

Weird figures again...
Families earning more than 10k a mth stand abt 13% in Singapore. But 1/3(33.33%) of them got the gov scholarships.
Then the grp of students whose family make less than $2k, thats abt 7% on the scholarships...

I would be interested to know how big is the 2nd grp...

basically, the figure juz re-affirms wht our MM Lee said, smart guy/gal give birth to smart kids... simply by equating smart = rich...

wht the figure means is that
13% of Singpoareans (top-tier) get 1/3 of scholorship, while
87% of Singaporeans (the rest) get 2/3 of scholorship

[dora]

Poor families dun have the knowledge and information to apply for scholarships and bursaries for their kids even if they do well in school. Schools only care about academic results.

That why I chose to be political ignorant...:phew:

[Leslie]

dora - thus far I have refrained from commenting on this thread, but really, what does this:
Poor families dun have the knowledge and information to apply for scholarships and bursaries for their kids even if they do well in school. Schools only care about academic results.
have to do with this??
That why I chose to be political ignorant...

In any case, I dunno about you la, but I don't actually find it such a cool thing to proudly proclaim my ignorance to the whole world lei -__-

[dora]

dora - thus far I have refrained from commenting on this thread, but really, what does this:

have to do with this??


In any case, I dunno about you la, but I don't actually find it such a cool thing to proudly proclaim my ignorance to the whole world lei -__-

I am sorry. Actually there should be more sentences in between the 2 paragraphs but I think no point saying them. So just let them do and say what they want. :D

[kazuki]

basically, the figure juz re-affirms wht our MM Lee said, smart guy/gal give birth to smart kids... simply by equating smart = rich...

wht the figure means is that
13% of Singpoareans (top-tier) get 1/3 of scholorship, while
87% of Singaporeans (the rest) get 2/3 of scholorship

But u arent getting the point.

The 13% ppl are already rich ppl to start with. So are u saying rich ppl = smart ppl?
If thats so, i so totally disagree on that. Most of times u see the real smart working ppl are those from the poor families. Coz they have seen poverty and the lows of life. They will do anything to change. But then not many can, coz its lotsa hardwork. Unlike rich ppl whom can easily just go for all the tuitions or so call take more tonics to strengthen the mind and body.

Then looking at the figures. There are only 13% of the rich ppl, but they already got away with 33.33% of the scholarship.


And the so non-scientific logic "smart guy/gal give birth to smart kids", that only show the ignorance of humans. Like when one has chicken pox u cant take dark soya sauce. When u its Lunar 7th month u cant go home late.
Oh Geez!!!! This is year 2006 already! Who still believe in that?!:duh:

[Leslie]

The 13% ppl are already rich ppl to start with. So are u saying rich ppl = smart ppl?
If thats so, i so totally disagree on that. Most of times u see the real smart working ppl are those from the poor families. Coz they have seen poverty and the lows of life. They will do anything to change. But then not many can, coz its lotsa hardwork. Unlike rich ppl whom can easily just go for all the tuitions or so call take more tonics to strengthen the mind and body.

Then looking at the figures. There are only 13% of the rich ppl, but they already got away with 33.33% of the scholarship.
kazuki, I would make a distinction between being "street smart" and "book smart" or "academically smart".

No doubt many people who may not be book smart, are street smart. No doubt also that such a person might well develop into being book smart if given enough encouragement and opportunity. However, reality dictates that the more well-off are in a better position to climb the academic ladder - even if we leave aside the debatable "nature" factor, purely by way of "nurture" they are better-placed to move ahead in school - which I stress again, is what really counts in the scholarship race, regardless of the increased weightage the selection boards have in recent years afforded to non-academic achievements.

Ultimately also, the aim of [government] scholarships is to take in the academically most outstanding. This, for better or worse, is the main criteria. Not "street smarts", or "hard work". the offer of scholarship money therefore carries with it a bond to serve the organisation, on the basis that the most book-smart people will be the most useful. Again, I will not go into whether this is actually the case - I for one agree that books-smarts without common sense is not ideal.

The money that is aimed at funding the lower-income on the basis of merit AND need, is disbursed by way of "bursaries" as opposed to scholarships. This is the money that is available to help poor but intelligent students tide over school expenses - and, if they are able to somehow compete on an equal footing for the big-money scholarships, nothing is stopping them from doing so.

[bryando88]

academically incline, characteristically hopeless......arent we seeing more of them these days......

Dont flame me on this, just my 2 cents on what I see happening around me more and more.......of course, I still admire those who play as hard as they study/work, but how many around are there nowadays?

[Leslie]

academically incline, characteristically hopeless......arent we seeing more of them these days......
Well ... when you define "success" overwhelmingly in terms of material, career and/or academic advancement - what to do?

When people believe, or perceive, that they can achieve "success" without the burden of morals, or even worse, that they can only achieve success by circumventing morals, then yes, you will slowly but surely achieve a "me-oriented" society. And such people will end up transmitting these values (or non-values as it were) to their children, thus creating a vicious circle of selfishness.

I'm really not sure what can be done to stem the tide effectively, short of tangibly demonstrating that adhering to moral values brings about identifiable personal benefit. And in this day and age, unfortunately the bottom line is very often exactly the opposite.

[add] For myself, I would teach my children that you do the "right thing" because it is the right thing to do, in and of itself, regardless of whether it will get them ahead, or even if it costs them something. I will also not sugar-coat reality in that people who don't do the right thing may well end up materially ahead of them. So it must be inculcated in them that material gain is not the only measure of a person. Here, religion is also useful as a means of moderating natural and selfish human tendencies.

[cyc]

Most of times u see the real smart working ppl are those from the poor families.
so, I assume those idiots in my company are from rich families lor :laugh:

Unlike rich ppl whom can easily just go for all the tuitions or so call take more tonics to strengthen the mind and body.
real smart kids don't go for tuition... I'd given tuition b4, none of my students live in landed property...

Then looking at the figures. There are only 13% of the rich ppl, but they already got away with 33.33% of the scholarship.
u juz proved the point... smart parents = smart kids...

And the so non-scientific logic "smart guy/gal give birth to smart kids", that only show the ignorance of humans.
there's something called genetic engineering... after u study the course, u tell me if MM Lee's claim is scientific or non-scientific... while it's not 100% that 2 brilliant parents would give birth to a bright kid, the chance is definitely higher compared to to avg parents giving birth to a bright one... read up on how the DNA in ur body works b4 calling MM Lee ignorant [-X


ever seen those that never study and get straight As, those are real smart... of coz family background would be helpful for getting that scholorship, but w/o good foundation, there's nothing much to build on... of coz, there're also smart kids from an avg family background, there's where the other 2/3 of scholorship goes to...

most smart pple are rich but not all rich pple are smart, get the diff? ;)

here's something for ya...
1. not all smart pple do well in academics
2. not all that do well in academics are smart
3. not all rich pple are smart

PS: Stem cells might save ur life one day :)

academically incline, characteristically hopeless......arent we seeing more of them these days...
of coz lah, all sort of pple in this world... ever seen academically hopeless, characteristically hopeless? r these pple on a decline?

[kazuki]

real smart kids don't go for tuition... I'd given tuition b4, none of my students live in landed property...

But rich kids definitely go for tuitions. Arent i right to say that?


u juz proved the point... smart parents = smart kids...

No i dun. Coz they also in the end ONLY make up of the 33.33%. Not the majority, rem?


there's something called genetic engineering... after u study the course, u tell me if MM Lee's claim is scientific or non-scientific... while it's not 100% that 2 brilliant parents would give birth to a bright kid, the chance is definitely higher compared to to avg parents giving birth to a bright one... read up on how the DNA in ur body works b4 calling MM Lee ignorant [-X


Well, 1st of all. I am not calling anyone names.
2nd, if u wish to use our sir MM as eg. U definitely had picked the wrong one. Coz talking abt genes, his family has a kid with some health prob, isnt it?
Do try to read something not just in ST huh. Coz they are so so filtered.


ever seen those that never study and get straight As, those are real smart... of coz family background would be helpful for getting that scholorship, but w/o good foundation, there's nothing much to build on... of coz, there're also smart kids from an avg family background, there's where the other 2/3 of scholorship goes to...

Straights As? Yes. But they dun last for long. Coz they are living on their "little intelligence"(how the chineses say it in mandarin)
The really scoring classmates i had back in sch. They are the hardworking and memorising students. Ask hades, he will know.
Those ppl, they can give words by words to all the qns u post them.

[cyc]

But rich kids definitely go for tuitions. Arent i right to say that?
of coz, u're rite... so, both rich kids and poor kids took tuition, so wht's ur point? :thinking:

No i dun. Coz they also in the end ONLY make up of the 33.33%. Not the majority, rem?
13% gets 33% (efficiency = 2.5)
87% gets 66% (efficiency = 0.7)
so, that's not majority? do u need tuition in Maths or wht? ;)

2nd, if u wish to use our sir MM as eg. U definitely had picked the wrong one. Coz talking abt genes, his family has a kid with some health prob, isnt it?
Genetic enginerring states that the traits (DNA, good or bad) of 2 bodies can be passed to their decendents...
1. 1st of all, there's no 100%
2. secondly, r we questioning abt his intelligence?

Straights As? Yes. But they dun last for long. Coz they are living on their "little intelligence"(how the chineses say it in mandarin)The really scoring classmates i had back in sch. They are the hardworking and memorising students. Ask hades, he will know. Those ppl, they can give words by words to all the qns u post them.
so, u simply assume that these students are all from rich families? :o


here's a story... my wife juz employed 3 RGS temps to work under her department... they're waiting for entry to NUS medical school next yr... she's surprized to find 'em pleasant & approachable (on top of being efficient) compared to some of her other temps who excel in gossips & stuffs... so, the moral of the story is that we shld not judge a person's personality based on his/her background, status, education, etc... each individual is different... in this world, there are rich snobs as well as poor snobs... there are rich smart as well as poor smart...

back to this thread, which discuss the widening of income gap... it's happening all over the world in developing countries, and is a difficult issue to tackle... the quick and dirty solution is to tax the rich heavily (say 70% of income), and subsidise the poor with free healthcare, transport & education... but that would only make the rich leave the country making our economy less competitive... if u have a good solution, pls suggest to our govt...

the only thing I find this thread bothering is this :-
SINGAPORE, Dec 18 (Reuters) - When Wee Shu Min, the teenage daughter of a Singapore member of parliament stumbled across the blog of a Singaporean who wrote that he was worried about losing his job, she thought she'd give him a piece of her mind.

She called him "one of many wretched, undermotivated, overassuming leeches in our country" on her own blog and signed off with "please, get out of my elite uncaring face".

Wee was flamed by hundreds of fellow bloggers, but when her father Wee Siew Kim -- an MP in Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong's constituency -- told a Singapore newspaper that "her basic point is reasonable", the row moved well beyond the blogosphere.


her comment is really uncalled for

PS: kazuki, pls pls pls be objective in ur evaluation. u don't win an argument simply by tossing mud. [-X